When you have been a realtor in the same market for a long time, you are likely to run into the same agents...soemtimes we "trade places" and we have the buyer and the other agent the seller and vice versa. One agent, Agent Suzy, believes, that as a buyer's agent, it is her job to take deep discounts on prices without regard to the market. That's fine....the seller always has the option to counter the offer or reject it if they choose. It is our policy, when we have more than one offer, to make all selling agents aware that there is more than one offer on the property.
This buyer's agent...always knows better. We believe that we price homes to sell...we study the market and the sellers bring the house into the best possible condition before putting it on the market. We have our sellers put their "best house forward" both in terms of condition and price. Agent Suzy always tells us that her buyer "really, really wants the house." Ok Suzy....we told you there are multiple offers....and how does it serve your buyer to write an offer far, far below the asking price...the market....and offer after offer is countered, rejected or unanswered. It doesn't.
Being a Buyer's agent is a tremendous responsibility...you want as does the buyer, the best value for their housing dollar...you want their choice of a home to be a good investment. We are working for the seller...but understand your position...we have been in your position as a buyer's agent. Not studying the market....deciding "Because you are a Buyer's Agent" regardless of market conditions, the price of the house, the competition for the sale, that you are right...doesn't help your buyer get a home. Being a buyer's agent is serious business...and it is more than about "being right."
If you are a buyer, working with a buyer agency contract have the agent do the homework...what have similar homes in the area sold for ? If your offer is far, far below that number and there are competitive offers, don't look for a mover anytime soon. If the home is a short sale or foreclosure, that does not mean the price can be cut by 50% and as we have heard sooo often...."the bank will take whatever we write." Not the case...not for any house...choose to work with an experienced agent, who has earned the Buyer Agency and understands the market.
You are so right!!!! However, unless is it is a short sale of foreclosure, we are not in a whole lot of multiple offer situations here.... and we can only advise our clients of what to do... If they talk to their sister and friend and and and they give different information (because the so - know better than the agent) we can only do what they ask us to do!
http://www.edhomeseller.com
Ah yes...the famous....friend, relative, neightbor knows best....we suggest moving in with them when you have no accepted offer over and over and over.
Just as there are listing agents who appeal to sellers with higher than market pricing "I can get $$$ for you".
There are buyers agents who promise "I am the great negotiator and I'll get you the best price. . . . ?
IMO, these practices simply harm the image of all Realtors. Question is, are they Realtors who have no cognizance of our responsibilities under the Code of Ethics to represent ourselves and property values honestly??? Mmmmmm.
Goodness, we've all seen the harm done to the market overall and Realtors' image by overpriced properties sitting and sitting and sitting.
Sadly, the same is true when the only thing a Buyer's Agent has to offer is their negotiating bullying skills.
You are sooo right Lenn...Bullying 101 is apparently what some agents have confused with Buyer Agency !
Experience counts. And reality. Keep on keeping on the road less traveled by. It will make all the difference.
I offer short sales to the public and have sold REOs on behalf of the lenders. I love working with buyers. Buyers like anyone need to be educated. We also price to the market. And we educate buyers agents as well. There are a lot of Agent Suzys out there. Great post.
Ahhh...the schools of experience and unfortunately sometimes for the buyer...hard knocks...getting consistently knocked out of the running for a great house because the agent knows best...
In my opinion, agent Suzy just does not have a realistic outlook on probably just about anything she does and she just happens to be a buyer's agent. I am wondering what her success rate is and whether her typical clients are investors who are just looking for a deal or first time buyers who don't know any better. I don't mean any offense to first time buyers. I just think that they are the ones who would need more guidance and who would be the most harmed by someone who just does not understand that this approach will not yield the desired result. Investors are usually more calculated and more likely to treat buying real estate as a numbers game.
Agent Suzy seems to be on a slow learning curve. She'll either learn the biz or vanish. Survivability is a function of closed transactions not written offers.
http://erealtr.com/
I never took Bullying 101 but I still seem to get my buyers good deals-maybe thats because of the market here, not my bullying techniques (lol). Some buyers are still living in the "I can offer whatever price I want and surely know better than my realtor" days and sometimes, you have to let them loose a few homes by being outbid before they come around. Just saying.
Agreed Ute...first time buyers DO need assistance...and not the "let's make a deal" mentality thinking that every house is theirs for whatever they choose to offer. We watch the sales numbers in MLS Bob as part of our recruiting effort for our brokerage...and you are right Suzy is not doing as well as she did in other years...she will of course, blame it on the market.
A while back someone wrote an article about doing a CMA for our buyer clients. That should be common place for buyers agents. How in the world can we expect our clients to offer a fair price for a home if they aren't educated as to current market value? I love working with buyers, and I especially enjoy the "sit down" when they are ready to write an offer. By the time we get to that point they know what similar homes have sold for, what the market saturation is, and how an appraisor will likely view the home. Only then can they feel comfy making a fair offer, one that will get them the home that they want without overpaying.
Fantastic article Sally and David.
Ah! that pesky Agent Suzy again. She might have family members in the business living here! Of course we can only direct our buyers, provide insight and crunch the numbers. Guess the proof is in the pudding and Agent Suzy and her buyers will learn when they continue to come away empty handed!
Some agents price VERY realistically to start so the automatic reduction is not well served.
Thank you Kris...you would hope a CMA would be a part of the writing process...apparently Suzy missed that part of her ABR course...she KNOWS better !
Hey Dick & Dixie...we are happy to move Suzy south anytime !
You bet Cheryl...price to sell or price to sit...we prefer selling !
Sally & David:
It is the duty of a buyer agent to do the research and analysis necessary to assess the value of the property by looking at everything that is available on the market as well as everything comparable that has sold.
In a competitive situation, it does not serve the buyer to put in an unreasonably low offer and will cost them the property that they want.
A seasoned agent who knows an area well will know if the house is priced correctly and make a suitable offer- if their buyer is motivated. Agent Suzy is creating a reputation that she may not want to have.
You got it Claudette ....in this case....having a buyer's agent like Suzy is not free...it will cost the buyer the house every time ! Yes Ellie...Agent Suzy may have to find anothe profession and start her reputation alllll over again !
Great blog....I have one of those buyers now thinking that any home we are looking at will be much less than the list price. Our job is to educate them...many of the buyers are taking a hit on the sale of their current home(which is on the market)...I think we need to be sensitive to their thoughts and be able to get them to understand what is realistic and what is not-after all everyone wants to feel like they GOT A DEAL!
You bet Noah...the truth is...it's still...Deal or No Deal....and it will be No Deal for those buyers and agents who do not have an ear out and mind open to know what's happening.
I'd guess that many of us can relate to trying to do business with the agent Suzys of the world; however, there is also the market conditioning that has occured due to the constant media attention to the housing crisis. Buyers have become conditioned to low-ball everything, in hopes of stealing a house. Some buyer agents will put up with that - good ones won't. If you can't get your clients to listen to your advice and make reasonable offers, fire them; they're just wasting your time. I would assume that reasonably intelligent buyers would also fire their Agent Suzy after they have been led down the unsuccessful low-ball path a few too many times. I've had buyers who not only rejected the low-ball bids but also instructed me to relay to the buyer agent that they would no longer entertain offers from those clients (usually after a few too many low-ball counters from them). That always goes over big.
I'll bet Norm..not writing with their big boy/girl pants on....yicks ! There is still the very real possibility of insulting the seller...Agent Suzy forgot that part.
You know, I've written the occassional low ball offer when instructed by a client, and they made their offer against my advise and against my better judgement and against the data from the CMA I did for them. But having a buyer do this is the exception, if the same agent does it over and over, it's not the client, it's the agent.
True enough Tammy....Agent Suzy lives in every market....and probably has another "real job."
Often, when we have been in the same market a long time, we start to notice who always lists homes way below market and who always seems to be too high. The same holds for offers from certain agents representing the buyer. But keeping an open mind is important. You never know when something these agents produce might be right on.
Thanks, Tammy.
I second what Lisa in comment 10 said. When you are interviewing for a listing, you have a pretty good idea of what it will take to sell the home and at what price. Based on that interview it's easy enough to make an informed decision whether to take the listing or not. As a Buyers Agent, no matter how much you educate your buyers, and regardless of the homes CMA value, you simply don't know how your buyers will respond until it's time to put their name on the dotted line. Again, like Lisa said, sometimes buyers have to be outbid a couple times before they get it.
Many buyer agents feel their job is to try and steal the house, not to assist the buying in 'buying' the house. Our job is to assist buyers and putting together a deal. Now if there was just a way to control some buyers looking to waste time trying to steal houses... Oh wait, there is, don't work with them.
Right Glen....open mind...just not open wallet :)....no stealing allowed...
You bet Dan....sometimes it's getting stung more than once before some buyers and agents figure out it isn't the market, the other agent, ...it is THEM !
Hey Greg and Beth....good to see you...takes the chill out of the air this am...warmed by your comment..!
You are so right. I am working with a buyer right now that totally "gets" why I showed her comps. She totally "gets" what fair market value is. AND she totally "got" they we should have started our search in a different location sooner than we did. A location where there were far more homes in line with her desired price range. Buyers do get it and we can make our job a lot less hassle by taking the time to properly do our jobs by way of providing data that aids in the decision making process.
Suzy does not get the "big picture" and I'm sorry for her clients.
Just yesterday, I was sitting down to help a first-time home-buyer client prepare his offer on a home. Mom and Dad had come in town for the weekend to help. When I suggested offering list price and backed that up with the analysis of the value with current comps, Mom said, "Does anyone offer list price on homes in this market?" I explained list price vs market value and that this was a good offer considering we were also asking the seller to pay all of his closing costs. Yes, buyers need education and facts to back up your opinion. Time and time again I am up against relatives, friends and co-workers who want to help but usually end up confusing the buyer even more. It's our job as Buyer's Agents to ensure our buyers understand the local market and process. The media and old-school mentality are tough to overcome but can be conquered!
I am a new agent, and agree with most of your post except about the buyers need to work with experienced agents-you were new too at one time.
I believe buyers need to work with EDUCATED agents who are willing to EDUCATE them on the buying process.
Education usually comes with experience, although I have a few colleagues that have been in the business for quite sometime and are inferior in my opinion. You have to ask yourself this: "Would I have myself list my house?" or "Would I work with myself to find a home?" A number of you might think of someone better suitted.
Experience means nothing more than years in the business. What you do with those years is what counts! An agent with Due Diligence and education/knowledge of the market will overcome lack of experience. Having said that, an agent with these qualities and a few years under there belt is a great combination.
Great post - I think we have all had clients who feel they are going to "lucky" with a low-ball offer. It only takes one story from someone they know who stole a property for them to think that they can win too. It's like the lottery--people keep on playing even though they never win. But I agree that it's about educating your clients or else everyone is just wasting their time.
I am not sure what part of there are several offers on the table this agent doesn't understand. I can see it happening once, but once you know, the listing agent doesn't beat around the bushes, the buyer agent is just playing with her buyer.
You are all correct....yes there is something to educated...and you are correct...experience is the best teacher...and the Agent Suzy's been in the business long enough to either go to the head of the class OR her buyers may let her flunk out.
The buyers who feel their offer will be "lucky" enough to be the exception to the market rule rank right up there beside the sellers who think they will be the ones to defy reality, too.
Our job is not to play to their delutions but to work and educate toward their best interest.
Having pride in your work is always hard when your overated ego gets in the way.
Correcto Mundo Jim...Hard to learn anything when you already know it all...
I love working with buyers and it is my job to get the best deal on a home and that can mean price, but not always. An example is the difference from taking a $4000 discount versue $4000 for a 3/2/1 buydown. More savings on the latter and a tax deduction for the buyer. We also have to evaluate what the buyer has in cash reserves. Sometimes it is better to have things added on like window treatments, if it means that the buyer can put money away in a rainy day fund, something many others would have loved to had a few years back. Having the data at your fingertips does also give you the ability to say this is it, let's do it now, or if the price is too high, let's walk away.
You are right...negotiation is not always just about the price !
I have seen where agents that don't listen cost their clients a property, mainly when they start acting as principal, "my client wont take that offer" etc.
Put it in writing...make sure the writing is legible...feasible...reasonable....
Hey if Suzy wants to write low-balls, that's her wasted time, and the disappointed of her clients. I always tell my clients that if we low-ball and another offer comes it, their low-ball will make the other offer look GREAT!! I practice Exclusive Buyer Agency. I've always been upfront, and tell buyers that I can't manifest something (a deal) that's not there.
Good advice Carla...among our many duties...magic tricks is not one of them !
Good post. I have been on both sides. With the amount of foreclosures in the market, you can't offer a seller who's home is in great shape the same offer as you would for an "as is" foreclosure.
True story....we have been fortunate with the condition of our short sales...it just isn't "let's make a deal" every time...
Yeah I have had buyers who always want to lowball. If the house is listed at $350k they want to offer $275. If its listed at $275, they want to offer $210. To them the value is a percentage of the list price. I try to teach my buyers this is not the case. If their price range is $300k-$350k I try to get them to look at $290k-$360k becaue they might see a $360k house that is overpriced or a $290k house that is underpriced. I try to show them what they are looking for within reason then help them look at comps and determine how much it's really worth.
If it's worth what they are asking, I see no reason to not offer it for list price. If it's worth less, then we offer less. It's the listing agent's job to make sure their sellers are reasonable in asking price and its my job as the buyer's agent to help them determine it's true value and what it's worth to THEM. Then we make a fair offer.
Anyone who is struggling with negotiation or is uncomfortable with it should consider getting the Certified Negotiation Expert training and earning the CNE designation. It's a good course.
Oops, comment #47 above was mine...
Good suggestion Jeff....and great practice guidelines...wanna teach Suzy ?
Agents are agents - some don't know who they represent other than themselves. The designation ABR does not change that one iota. There is no way I am going to continue to pay an organization to place some stupid letters at the end of my name. Been there, done that. Next, my college will want me to turn in my BA unless I pay the alumni association its annual fee.
Other than that, I agree with you.
Informally, I always work up a CMA for my buyers - these are similar homes or land, and here's what they sold for and when...
When they take my advice - we negotiate within a very narrow band of where they want to end up. From time to time, armed with that "reasonable" starting offer - we stick the deal with the first offer, saving my buyers thousands of dollars.
What a property is worth does not have much to do with the asking price. Unless your buyer believes you when you says that - good luck getting to the closing table.
Alot of buyers feel they can lowball everything and this is not the case. Good information.
Interesting Greg...letters are letters....you are correct...learning what it means to be a buyers agemt...with or without the letters...priceless
We respectfully disagree Jeanne...if the list price has nothing to do with what the property "is worth"...then it isn't priced to sell...it's priced to sit...but that's another blog...
I agree with Kimberly Harris in comment 32. As a broker tasked with training and management of agents I'd far rather give a referral to a new agent who is willing to learn her craft and represent her clients with professionalism and integrity than try to retrain an agent who has already developed bad habits. In an industry that is changing at the speed of light there is always room for improvement and "new" is a relative term.
Good for Denise...there may be fewer Agent Suzy types in newer agents that have a fresher, eager to learn approach than agents who are veterans...Good Point !
I agree with you 100%! The last time I looked, the code of ethics says that we treat ALL parties honestly and fairly! We have to do our fiduciary duty, but there doesn't have to be collateral damage along the way!
It's been tough with many buyers still in the mindset of getting the "deal" of the century. I have found many are still listening to the national media and have yet to realize that real estate is local and they must trust the knowledge of their agent in providing them with the most current market data. I'll be happy when we see an overall stabilization in the market again.
Who enforces any code...maybe therein lies part of the problem Jeani
Ah yes Donna....local local local...and the media is national national national
Who enforces any code...maybe therein lies part of the problem Jeani
Ah yes Donna....local local local...and the media is national national national
Hmmm - you have to wonder what Agent Suzy's track record really is.
I guess I didn't realize the BA's job wasn't to bully the sellers into accepting a rock bottom price that is not consistent with market value just because one buyer feels that what it's worth. My bad.
Jeff
Hey Jeff....Agent Suzy had better years in the olden days when the phone rang more frequently and she was used to sitting and waiting for it....now....I think she may have forgotten to Shift....
Wonderful post. I agree totally and I have alsways believed that an agent should specialize in what they like to do and what they do best.
So where's Suzy tonight? Killing another tree? Great post and very amusing comments.
Peace all!
I love the buying side of our business but it has to be realistic. If my buyer wants to put in an offer that I think it will not work, I would not even advise them to do it and if they insist, I will have to since we are her to serve them. Comps are a good way to help them realize the market price and with the current market, comps may be off a little. Another factor to ask your Mr Buyer is how much do you like this house? If they really, really, really like the house then how bad do they want the house?
They have to realize that they too have a cost when buying, consider the timeframe, inconvienences, kid's schedule, school schedule...etc. All that are worth something.
Suzy pribably has her own forest :)
You would think that getting to the bottom line...the first timeould be easier but but but...
I always do my homework and advise my client of recent sales in the target area. However, so many people are listening to the national news about all the doom and gloom. Once I advise them, the offer is up to them. If they want to low-ball it, I do. But I also advise them that they just may not get the house. In the end, they make the call.
Buyers decide and hopefully they listen to an experienced voice...
If you are out there, you know what is fair. You know what is right. Advising your buyers this way can only help. We are professionals and while our duty as a buyer's agent is to our buyer, we shouldn't expected to steal anyone's home!
Hi Sally and David -- Well said, very well said. I feel sorry for clients when they are not represented well. Choose your agent wisely!
Any agent worth his salt will not do this consistently. It's a disserve to their client be so offer the mark. The market is where it is. It may take someone some time to get good at knowing where that point is but if one is taking too long to be where the action is, which is a the market prices, then the clients and the agents are going nowhere.
I sometime tell a buyer that the price they are considering is so off that is will be a waste of time. And sometime so insulting that the seller will not want to deal with the buyers or me. That does no one any good. Sometimes you might need to do it just to teach a buyer that you are right when you way the price won't fly. I do this sporadiacally since I don't want to tarnish my reputation with the realtor community.
Unfortunately I think that many agents are not true buyers agents, in the sense that they work more toward getting the deal closed than ensuring it's the right deal for their clients.
Being fair...responsible....and not being afraid to tell the buyer (oh my goodness...lose a buyer...oh no !) the truth...that consistently writing random silly offers is a waste of time, trees....etc., etc.
Suzy is not an advocate and/or coach for her buyers ! We all know that positioning is absolutely crucial in multi-offers !!!
As some other people have said...when ego gets in the way of offers...everyone loses.
Bottom line is that until the market evens out the "perception" will be that you can get a house for half price. Remember 5 years ago when homes were selling above asking price??
Our priced to sell Short Sales...still are selling above asking as they are in many markets...you are right...whether it is the bank or a seller...buyers believe that they will take whatever they can get....and Agent Suzy helps to perpetuate that myth.
Hmm, somewhere Suzy misread the NAR Code of Ethics that states that we have a fiduciary duty to our clients. I'm not sure how low-balling an offer is in the client's best interest. Perhaps you should remind her of this next time she comes calling with a buyer.
Very good thought...I don't think Suzy probably reads the Code....like the same realtors who have no basis for the price...how is that ethical ? thank you ...wish the code had teeth...I think that may be another blog...
On a side note in response to Gregory,.. The CNE course is two full days of training and materials. Well worth the $295 for the training in its own right, in my opinion. The designation is just a plus and it has no montly or yearly subscription fee. Once you have it, you have it.
Heck I'll give you the JTYC designation for $10 bucks a month and you can put the letters JTYC after your name. It stands for Jeff Thinks Your Cool. But I only think you're cool if you pay the $10 bucks every month. =)
Note to ALL SUZYs: if you cannot educate your buyers on the current market forces at work and help them understand the concept of "all markets are local" then perhaps you should stick to your day job as a hostess at the local casual dining establishment!
OK Jeff...sounds like a good deal...we can exchange for the monthly fee from the Princess of Real Estate (that would be me) knighting you in the round table of ethical realtors...
Hey Jenna...it's almost carhop season....maybe...awwww shucks...that requires a shift ....
OK Jeff...sounds like a good deal...we can exchange for the monthly fee from the Princess of Real Estate (that would be me) knighting you in the round table of ethical realtors...
Hey Jenna...it's almost carhop season....maybe...awwww shucks...that requires a shift ....
Great post and know your frustration. I use my CMA when presenting the offer as a buyer's agent, when I am a seller's agent delivering a counter offer. Says to the buyer and their agent, we know the market, stop wasting our time!
Great support information...many are called...and sometimes few are listening ....Hope Agent Suzy sees this one !
Sweet! I've been knighted an ethical realtor by the princess of real estate! That's goin on my business card! Enjoy your JTYC designation! WOOT!
Be sure and keep your armour polished....chin up...feather plume fluffed....shield and sabre ready for whatever comes your way....and don't forget the cape for over the puddles should the Princess visit during inclement weather !
OMG. Are you suggesting that when we're working as buyer's agents, we should umm...work. Do CMAs? Understand the market, educate the buyers? Gosh, that almost sounds like a real job. LOL
I think Agent Susy has moved to the beach and that she has honed her bullying techniques and that I've had to deal with her way too much lately. Take her back please!!!!
Nah...just put some numbers on a line and know that the sellers will take whatever you write...just ask the author of Real Estate 101...Agent Suzy !
like most of us we work both sides of the fence. Regardless of who we are rpresenting it is our responsibility to be knowledgable and present all the facts to the client. Writing offers 50% less than list price is a complete waste of everybody's time.
The Agent Suzy'sull themselves into thinking that they are right...they will win...they are the boss...oh not
Sally
Great information
I see a big problem in our area where people play both sides of the fence and are not clear cut. You are either a buyers agent or a sellers agent, and not kind of both (unless it's a dual agency). Don't know if you see vagueness but I see it quite often these days.
Good advice to all of us buyers agents. Sometimes it's hard to talk the buyer into making a good offer but at least we can educate them.
Tom...both sides was not the point of the blog...if you are a Buyer's agent...tell the buyer the facts and if you don't understand them...or know them...ask the listing agent...ask any agent...not Suzy who knows it all.
Hi Team Honeycutt....educate educate....that is right...and we need to start with our own first...so there are fewer Agent Suzy types to confuse people.
Tom...both sides was not the point of the blog...if you are a Buyer's agent...tell the buyer the facts and if you don't understand them...or know them...ask the listing agent...ask any agent...not Suzy who knows it all.
Hi Team Honeycutt....educate educate....that is right...and we need to start with our own first...so there are fewer Agent Suzy types to confuse people.
Buyer's must understand that getting a deal is relative. Most our LP to SP are within 5%.
Showing buyers the record in the market should lend some reality to the pricing..we can hope !